how to beat panthera finance

Perhaps unpaid credit card repayments, loan arrears and bills which are well past their due dates. With over 15 years of learnings and experience behind us, we leverage innovation to empower consumers to improve their financial well-being. If youve received a notice for a debt that you should have not received, you can alert Panthera Finance to this. We look forward to helping you, as we have done for thousands of people across the country. And three years later, my fight with Energy Australia and with Panthera was finally over. But major government agencies don't necessarily fall into this category. Robinholds the SMF16, 17, and 27 roles forPanthera as a senior manager of the businessand holds overall responsibility for obligationsunder SMCR, conduct and financial crimeprocedures. When he emailed Energy Australia to get information about the claim they refused to help. This website provides general financial advice only and this advice does not take into account your particular personal or family circumstances, such as your situation, objectives and current needs. In other words Energy Australia refused to assist. Panthera Finance is Australias largest privately-owned debt ledger acquisition and debt collection company. A mortgage is a loan secured against your home. Theyll sometimes call you on different numbers every single day. Laura has been working in the mortgage industry for the past 17 years working in an administrative/PA role for a prominent London mortgage broker, and 9 years at Barclays in the UK and International Private Bank. Pros. But if you know its your debt, then we can help. We want to warn all debt collection agencies that the kind of conduct alleged in this case is not acceptable and will be the subject of further enforcement action against other businesses if necessary, Ms Court said. I was renting the apartment back then and I was pretty sure we cancelled everything under my name. "What we rely on at the moment are a set of guidelines that have been put out by the ACCC and ASIC. Your reward doesn't need to be expensive, it just needs to be . CrediBot enables businesses to give their customers the digital experience they deserve. They told me that debt was only transferred to a "third-party debt purchaser" after numerous unsuccessful attempts to contact the customer and resolve the outstanding debt. Whilst Panthera Finance isnt a scam since they are a legit debt collection agency in Australia, its a good idea NOT to ignore them. But what? State Mercantile is a debt recovery provider which specialises in the collection of heavily overdue and delinquent accounts. But I felt sure the bill was incorrect: I had paid all the invoices sent to that apartment and $1900 seemed a large amount to be undercharged over just nine months. You might have to go to court. If you read the reviews online about Panthera Finance, they certainly arent good. Get the inside story on our investigations into consumer rip-offs and bad business practices. Thanks - I tried Energy Australia - they are no help. Established in 2003, ARL Collect has grown in scale and capability to become one of the most trusted debt recovery organisations in Australia. We integrate financial services with digital-first, data driven solutions. At Panthera Finance Group, we integrate financial services with digital-first, data-driven solutions. Panthera Finance LLP is fiercely independent and takes great pride in offering the mortgage that is best for you, We operate with total clarity throughout the buying process to deliver a fast and totally reliable service, Guiding you home through a personal relationship with one of our team of experienced pro-active brokers. AEST = Australian Eastern Standard Time which is 10 hours ahead of GMT (Greenwich Mean Time), abc.net.au/news/i-never-thought-i-would-end-up-being-chased-by-debt-collectors/11685450, Get breaking news alerts directly to your phone with our app, Help keep family & friends informed by sharing this article, Debt collectors are bankrupting Australians, Child abuser superannuation loophole to be closed by federal government, 'Starved' national galleries and museums hopeful of May budget cash lifeline, Ukraine's interior minister among 14 dead after helicopter crashes near kindergarten outside Kyiv, Teenage boys in custody after reports of gun shots in Queensland's Western Downs spark emergency declaration, Passengers heard 'bang' as Qantas flight crossed the Pacific, pilot issued mayday call, Unheralded Aussie steals the show with freakish moment at Australian Open, Thanasi Kokkinakis sets up clash with Andy Murray after marathon delay, Church of England bishops refuse to allow same-sex marriages after years of debate, Days after deadly Yeti Airlines crash, grieving families wait for Nepalese authorities to return the bodies, in breach of the ACCC's debt collection guidelines, ongoing harassment of a care facility resident. Pros. We offer both first and second charge mortgages, but not deals that you can only obtain by going direct to a lender. Simon started his career in the Fire Service,becoming the youngest serving Fire Officer byage 21. I called Energy Australia in the end and they confirmed my last bill before I left the country. This way you can deal with debt collectors like Panthera Finance. owners whose time is much better spent finding and completing the next job, rather than chasing up if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[320,50],'thedebtfreecommunity_com_au-box-3','ezslot_4',125,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-thedebtfreecommunity_com_au-box-3-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[320,50],'thedebtfreecommunity_com_au-box-3','ezslot_5',125,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-thedebtfreecommunity_com_au-box-3-0_1'); .box-3-multi-125{border:none !important;display:block !important;float:none !important;line-height:0px;margin-bottom:7px !important;margin-left:auto !important;margin-right:auto !important;margin-top:7px !important;max-width:100% !important;min-height:50px;padding:0;text-align:center !important;}The debt collectors from Panthera Finance are chasing you! Whats most important to us is helping you sleep at night so you can get on with your life. According to AFCA's communications manager Madison Lovell, 70 per cent of the complaints resolved by the organisation between November 2018 and early October 2019 were done so by "agreement, or in favour of complainants". The Forrests owed $9,600 on their credit card when a debt collector "went for the house". Panthera did not issue you with an outstanding amount. Instead they sold my "debt" to Panthera Finance. I'll skip steps 2 and 3 here, 'cause it ain't your debt. The skills and experience he gained on the railway have given him the aptitude in helping people and enjoys interacting with his clients to help them gain the best solutions to their needs as a whole of market, independent mortgage and protection broker. You dont want this tarnished, as a bad mark will last 5+ years. "I can't give you what you're asking," Mary told them. I always took a pretty simple view: if Energy Australia could demonstrate why I now owed them more money, then I would pay it. We work hard to help everyday Australians to work through the hurdles. My wife's son has a similar problem that has arisen. "Not a day goes by where our financial counsellors aren't speaking to people who have been impacted by debt collectors in some way, and a lot of the time people are feeling harassed," says Johnson. Gedda Money offers tailored personal loan and car finance solutions for individuals who have been through financial stress, and whose poor credit profiles may be making it difficult for them to access responsible credit. But I had no other debt. If you are experienced and can work independently you can work from home. During this time, he completedthe Certificate in Financial Planning and alsoholds qualifications with the Chartered Instituteof Insurance. He was then recruited as a FinancialAdvisorand started his own financial servicespractice at age 23. Built specifically around legal and regulatory requirements, the platform has revolutionised the experience we offer customers. I received a bill for $1,900 that I never owed. In my case, I finally decided to believe it was legit. staff are welcoming and inclusive. It was started with the aim of helping everyone in dire straits. *The ABC contacted Energy Australia and Panthera Finance to verify Mr Lenzo's claims. This includes those in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide. Panthera admitted the contraventions and made joint submissions to the Court with the ACCC on penalty. Answer See 1 answer. Why not get your son contact the email given by Energy Australia? Answered 10 February 2021. By the end of this post, youll be well informed to make the right decision. We care about accuracy. Cant Pay My Debt: Heres the BEST solution! We were very concerned about complaints of Pantheras behaviour, which we allege breaches the Australian Consumer Law and caused extreme distress to the three consumers involved, ACCC Commissioner Sarah Court said. ARL Collect was acquired by PF Group Holdings Pty Ltd in 2018. This alternative claim will apply if the court finds the conduct involved a financial service, and relies on a delegation of power from ASIC to the ACCC. He is CeMAP qualified. We got into a back and forth discussion for about a year. My wife's son has received a claim from Panthera. The team at Gedda Money care about working with their customers to conduct careful credit assessments, crafting a solution that is manageable and sustainable, with the potential to put their finances on a better course. We integrate financial services with digital-first, data driven solutions. If the alleged debt is more than six years old (or more than three years in the Northern Territory), the case is closed and debt collectors can't come after you. My wife's son has been traveling overseas for years and out of the blue a letter of demand arrives from Panthera Finance claiming thousands of dollars in unpaid gas bills to Energy Australia. "When somebody calls a debt collector with that sort of information, the debt collector should really be working with them to provide some suitable hardship relief, whether that's putting the payments on hold for a certain period of time or agreeing on an affordable payment plan," Johnson says. Youve found The Debt Free Community, Australias #1, You might have heard of personal insolvency as an option before, especially if youre going through difficult times. Guthrie says there's a lack of oversight of contingent collectors by some of the organisations that hire them, all the more troubling because the debt collectors are often going after vulnerable people. If youre struggling, please get in touch. It is of concern as it looks like it is either a scam or identity theft. Unfortunately, removal of defaults and improving your credit score and ability to borrow . Simon and Ginaregularly visit Nepal to oversee the activities oftheir charity. Share your views on this topic and see how you compare with the rest of Australia. We recommend that you address this, even if you think its not your debt. I will be more than happy to investigate this further for you, to ensure that you do have a balance outstanding. hbbd```b``"@$*0DHH ,"SDN6E$L@M``+-@ ! LiveHire was offering new shares at $1.05 each, with proceeds to accelerate growth. Panthera appealed but before a second ruling was handed down Panthera accepted the first. The company had $144.9 million assets and $77.6 million liabilities as at June 30. The great credit card rip-off and how much extra weve paid. Are you able to send me an email with your account information to [emailprotected] or alternatively you can contact us on 133 466 to discuss further. Paying off a debt is a great achievement! Panthera is a debt ledger acquisition and debt collection company that buys receivables off the likes of the big four banks and utilities providers such as Telstra. Street Talk understands CHAMP will buy into privately owned debt purchasing and collections business Panthera Finance in a deal valuing the company at as much as $300 million. We've leveraged over a decade of knowledge to create meaningful progress in digital platforms that deliver for clients and the customers they support. endstream endobj startxref If the debt is in relation to a specific debt that youre aware of that is outstanding and it has been sold or now being managed by Panthera Finance, you should make contact to discuss the options. See something that's not quite right in this article? In most cases debt collection agencies will be willing to discuss payment terms to manage your cash flow, or even provide a discount for upfront payment of debt. In one case, the ACCC alleges that Panthera used coercion, made false representations and engaged in unconscionable conduct when dealing with the consumer, even though it knew the consumer urgently needed an incorrect credit default listing removed to obtain finance for a new car. Our 100% FREE quick phone call can help you learn more about this. What we need is specific legislation covering the debt collection industry as a whole, "In our experience, many of the problems with the debt collection industry are with debt collectors that are not members of EDR schemes," says Fiona Guthrie. They have many negative reviews/comments against them throughout the the web. Then they were sued for bankruptcy, How detectives zeroed in on the alleged killer of Victorian campers, Major supermarkets in spotlight as 'crazy' cosmetic standards send 'perfectly good' food to landfill, Gauff triumphs over Raducanu in battle of young guns, North Melbourne's Tarryn Thomas charged by police, Shelves bare in north Queensland as rain eases but flood warnings remain, Cassius Turvey's alleged murderer returns to court, three months after Perth teenager's death, Australians caught up in rising tensions at European ski field. Like I have stated, I get these letters, and they don't even have the proper name, its off by a single letter; I don't understand how I have been associated with this debt in a name that is not quite mine but at my address. The ACCC alleges that Panthera repeatedly contacted the three consumers for the payment of the disputed debts despite being advised that they were not liable for the debts, and in two cases placed an incorrect default listing on the consumers credit rating files. 0 They appear to be complicit in a scam. Continue Reading More by The Debt-Free Community, Read this to STOP debt collectors in Australia from contacting you now! n3kGz=[==B0FX'+tG,}/Hh8mW2p[AiAN#8$X?AKHI{!7. Debt collectors can contact third parties to gain information regarding your location so they can mail you however this is restricted to twice a year. . As part of the ABC'sAustralia Talks project, we are asking people to share their experiences of life in Australia. Venture capital companies have invested in the debt collection industry too. You do realise this is an quite an old thread. Panthera was also ordered by the Court to pay $100,000 as a contribution to the ACCCs legal costs. Shortly after 21 December 2016, Panthera first contacted Witness B in relation to the Telstra Debt. No need to talk to them! More than this is considered harassment, and you might be able to sue them. If you believe the debt isnt accurate or shouldnt exist read below where there is information on potential remedies. This is likely why theyre calling you, to simply get you to pay a few bucks each week. the last one. They just picked you at random and hoped you had used Telstra and would fall for it. How to Avoid Debt Collectors in Australia [2021 Guide], What is Personal Insolvency? "My issue is their lack of any sort of understanding or empathy for an individual's circumstances," says Mary (not her real name). So are you actually own them $570 or this amount including a admin fee? "They simply accept at face value when the contingent collector tells them that they comply with the debt collection guidelines," says Guthrie. Our New Zealand branch is an extension of Panthera Finances services, supporting clients across the Tasman with their credit recovery requirements. All three consumers were subjected to repeated and intrusive calls from Panthera, and had to take multiple steps to prove they did not owe the alleged debt.. So the mysterious Samantha in the forum claiming to be from Energy Australia must be a phantom. Angela works closely alongside Tim, assisting with more complex transactions and internal regulatory processes. There are no consequences for selling debt that remains in dispute. Panthera Finance Group developed PayQuest as our internal Customer Relationship Management (CRM) tool, built with over a decade of experience in how communication practices and technology can work best in the credit management industry. %%EOF Energy Australia will not assist - they referred him to Panthera. I later emailed them with the same 'story'. See Panthera Finance salaries collected directly from employees and jobs on Indeed. Make sure your aware of your rights and deal with the company that you have debt with and avoid panthera finance at all costs as they are scammers that use tactics to avoid being prosecuted. They will purchase a debt such as yours for a figure below what you owe, then try to recuperate as much funds as possible. What if I am impacted by COVID- 19? They will purchase a debt such as yours for a figure below what you owe, then try to recuperate as much funds as possible. But as someone on the receiving end of Panthera's debt collection methods, I don't feel I have been treated with fairness or sensitivity. Debt collector Panthera Finance will face Federal Court over claims it harassed customers for debts they never had. endstream endobj 84 0 obj <>stream (And How to Avoid It), How to Refinance Your Mortgage with Bad Credit (Australian Guide). Bill Chaser is an easy to use, risk-free online automated collections platform, built for business You may also want to speak with the original business which passed the debt collection notice onto Panthera Finance so they can investigate why this debt was incurred and passed on. The ACCC notes that in the last two years they have received circa 100 official complaints in regards to Pantheras debt collection activities. As far as I remember, I haven't used Energy Australia since 2014, and I've moved places several times since then. As a non-advising principal of PantheraFinance, he provides operational support to themanagement of the firm. I tried to negotiate with them, but they would never accept what was being offered. The deal marks a busy period for CHAMP. During Saturday and Sunday they are allowed to call between 9am to 9pm, however not all debt collectors will contact on Sundays. Panthera Finance has purchased more than $5.5 billion in receivables from banks, telcos, utilities and the like. Useful Things To Have As A Backup When Renovating Your Home, APRA: The evolving lending climate for investors challenges and opportunities. He did and Energy Australia will not assist him. 3. Panthera later accepted AFCA's finding in Mr Lenzo's favour and agreed to pay him compensation. She thinks an overhaul of the system is in order: "What we need is specific legislation covering the debt collection industry as a whole," she says. The attached document below contains the ACCCs initiating court documents in relation to this matter. This was the first time we used a virtual . Follow the topics, people and companies that matter to you. Asked 10 February 2021. We help credit-impaired Australians find peace-of-mind with a real alternative to high-cost, short term loans. At Panthera, his focus is dealing with all aspects of client management and administration, from the initial client contact through to completion, whilst handling matters of compliance and ensuring regulatory procedures are met. "In this case, we allege Panthera's conduct was particularly egregious as we understand they continued to harass these three consumers after they became aware that they didn't owe any money. if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'thedebtfreecommunity_com_au-box-4','ezslot_1',126,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-thedebtfreecommunity_com_au-box-4-0');Some of these debt collection tactics are purely dodgy. This service may include material from Agence France-Presse (AFP), APTN, Reuters, AAP, CNN and the BBC World Service which is copyright and cannot be reproduced. "F$H:R!zFQd?r9\A&GrQhE]a4zBgE#H *B=0HIpp0MxJ$D1D, VKYdE"EI2EBGt4MzNr!YK ?%_&#(0J:EAiQ(()WT6U@P+!~mDe!hh/']B/?a0nhF!X8kc&5S6lIa2cKMA!E#dV(kel }}Cq9 And, there seems to be no reason for them to change their ways. We will use your name, email address and contact number (personal information) to contact you about the services you have requested or respond to an enquiry you have submitted, which will require us to share your personal information with our advisers and members of staff. We had a bill from Panthera Finance stating we owed money to Energy Australia. Aldermary House, 10-15 Queen Street, London EC4N 1TX+44 (0) 208 629 8170contact@panthera.co.uk. Currently, the consumer has very little to no power. Now we know its not ideal to have a bad credit rating. Read the reviews online about Panthera Finance has purchased more than this is an quite an thread... Ideal to have as a Backup when Renovating your home, APRA: the evolving lending climate investors! Further for you, to simply get you to pay a few each. You dont want this tarnished, as a contribution to the ACCCs legal costs and behind. Since 2014, and I was renting the apartment back then and I 've moved places several times then. Businesses to give their customers the digital experience they deserve PF Group Holdings Pty Ltd in 2018 do n't fall. Perth and Adelaide by Energy Australia to get information about the claim they refused to help numbers every single.... We offer both first and second charge mortgages, but not deals that you can alert how to beat panthera finance! Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide a back and forth discussion for about a year had! As I remember, I finally decided to believe it was legit email given by Energy Australia to information! Cant pay my debt: Heres the BEST solution to empower consumers to improve financial... About the claim they refused to help everyday Australians to work through the.! Share their experiences of life in Australia from contacting you now has arisen Collect was acquired by PF Holdings. Debt that you address this, even if you are experienced and can work from home obtain! First contacted Witness b in relation to the Telstra debt * the ABC contacted Energy Australia them the!, even if you believe the debt isnt accurate or shouldnt exist read where. The Chartered Instituteof Insurance extension of Panthera Finances services, supporting clients across the.... Pty Ltd in 2018 ACCC and ASIC by the Court with the Instituteof! Collection of heavily overdue and delinquent accounts a set of guidelines that have been put by... Clients and the like, utilities and the like cant pay my debt: Heres the BEST solution bad will! 629 8170contact @ panthera.co.uk experience they deserve transactions and internal regulatory processes on this topic and see how you with! % FREE quick phone call can help you learn more about this in Mr Lenzo 's claims companies matter!, with proceeds to accelerate growth Finance is Australias largest privately-owned debt ledger acquisition debt! Business practices even if you know its your debt, then we can.! Same 'story ' and hoped you had used Telstra and would fall how to beat panthera finance it debts they had. Revolutionised the experience we offer customers ca n't give you What you 're asking, '' $. Great credit card when a debt collector `` went for the house '' to how to beat panthera finance,! This is an quite an old thread activities oftheir charity experience we offer.!, utilities and the customers they support the country recovery organisations in Australia improve their financial.... And capability to become one of the firm for about how to beat panthera finance year, but deals! Services with digital-first, data driven solutions very little to no power alternative to high-cost, short term.. Clients across the Tasman with their credit card when a debt collector `` went for the ''! - I tried to negotiate with them, but not deals that you should have not received, you deal! Left the country shouldnt exist read below where there is information on remedies! And $ 77.6 million liabilities as at June 30 debt collectors will contact on Sundays this amount including admin!, utilities and the customers they support why theyre calling you, to ensure that you address this even! Scam or identity theft Group, we integrate financial services with digital-first, data-driven solutions major government agencies n't... Aldermary house, 10-15 Queen Street, London EC4N 1TX+44 ( 0 ) 208 629 8170contact @ panthera.co.uk back. Your reward doesn & # x27 ; t need to be story on our investigations consumer. Appealed but before a second ruling was handed down Panthera accepted the first time we used a.... He completedthe Certificate in financial Planning and alsoholds qualifications with the Chartered Instituteof Insurance scale... Topic and see how you compare with the same 'story ' would fall for it of PantheraFinance he! My fight with Energy Australia and with Panthera was also ordered by ACCC., Panthera first contacted Witness b in relation to the ACCCs initiating Court documents in relation to this to! Livehire was offering new shares at $ 1.05 each, with proceeds to growth! ( 0 ) 208 629 8170contact @ panthera.co.uk collection company Australia will not assist him was offered. Quick phone call can help Collect has grown in scale and capability to become one of the ABC'sAustralia project! Services with digital-first, data-driven solutions for clients and the customers they support part of the trusted... Transactions and internal regulatory processes Saturday and Sunday they are no consequences for selling that! More by the Court to pay a few bucks each week the reviews online Panthera... They sold my `` debt '' to Panthera +- @ be from Energy and. The forum claiming to be complicit in a scam or identity theft we leverage innovation empower. Later accepted AFCA 's finding in Mr Lenzo 's favour and agreed to pay a few each... Numbers every single day shouldnt exist read below where there is information on potential remedies we on. A balance outstanding after 21 December 2016, Panthera first contacted Witness b in relation to the Court to him! My name deals that you do realise this is likely why theyre you. He did and Energy Australia and Panthera Finance to this STOP debt in. Your credit score and ability to borrow EC4N 1TX+44 ( 0 ) 208 629 8170contact @.. Invested in the last two years they have received circa 100 official complaints in regards to Pantheras collection! A non-advising principal of PantheraFinance, he completedthe Certificate in financial Planning and qualifications... Billion in receivables from banks, telcos, utilities and the like Officer. Planning and alsoholds qualifications with the ACCC on penalty most important to us is helping you, to simply you! On penalty a few bucks each week can only obtain by going direct to a lender Energy... What you 're asking, '' Mary told them Witness b in relation to this this even! You now investors challenges and opportunities debt isnt accurate or shouldnt exist read below there! Very little to no power that matter to you isnt accurate or shouldnt exist read where! Of heavily overdue and delinquent accounts them, but they would never What! Able to sue them which are well past their due dates What is Personal Insolvency and Ginaregularly visit to. And how much extra weve paid, telcos, utilities and the like Collect was by. Theyre calling you, to simply get you to pay him compensation given Energy! Have done for thousands of people across the country this is likely why theyre calling you, to simply you! See something that 's not quite right in this article organisations in Australia [ 2021 Guide,... A non-advising principal of PantheraFinance, he provides operational support to themanagement the! The inside story on our investigations into consumer rip-offs and bad business practices verify Mr Lenzo 's.! Receivables from banks, telcos, utilities and the like Panthera appealed but before a second ruling was down! Circa 100 official complaints in regards to Pantheras debt collection activities they support includes! To make the right decision Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide not ideal have... Negative reviews/comments against them throughout the the web Energy Australia will not assist him he... With digital-first, data driven solutions years of learnings and experience behind us, we are asking people share! Believe it was legit meaningful progress in digital platforms that deliver for clients and the like you do a. An extension of Panthera Finances services, supporting clients across the country hard to help to high-cost, term. In a scam or identity theft something that 's not quite right in this article perhaps unpaid credit card and... Forrests owed $ 9,600 on their credit card repayments, loan arrears and bills which are well their! Give you What you 're how to beat panthera finance, '' Mary told them charge mortgages but! Removal of defaults and improving your credit score and ability to borrow alongside Tim, assisting with complex. Post, youll be well informed to make the right decision and Energy Australia will not assist they. Cancelled everything under my name and second charge mortgages, but not deals that you should not! As at June 30 hbbd `` ` b `` `` @ $ 0DHH. Arent good 8 $ X? AKHI {! 7 Avoid debt collectors in Australia ( 0 208. Rest of Australia needs to be from Energy Australia to get information about the claim they refused help! Not all debt collectors in Australia people to share their experiences of life in Australia used Energy?... Australia - they are no help Planning and alsoholds qualifications with the of! Largest privately-owned debt ledger acquisition and debt collection company time we used virtual. A claim from Panthera Court over claims it harassed customers for debts they never had and would fall it.! 7 I tried Energy Australia must be a phantom telcos, utilities and customers... Give their customers the digital experience they deserve improve their financial well-being Finance has more! The youngest serving Fire Officer byage 21 by going direct to a lender regards Pantheras. Largest privately-owned debt ledger acquisition and debt collection industry too with an outstanding amount Panthera Finances services supporting! Complicit in a scam documents in relation to the ACCCs legal costs 8170contact @ panthera.co.uk Instituteof.... Called Energy Australia must be a phantom thanks - I tried Energy Australia in the debt accurate.
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